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• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: shash  Jun 07, 2012 Posts 3

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  Hello, This is one of the most informative blog I have read so far around low GPA MBA admissions. I have a low GPA of 2.8 in an engineering program in Canada and was advised by an MBA consultant to take a course in Accounting as an alternate transcript. I personally don't think this would help my case in any way as my low GPA is due to very low scores only during the 2nd year of my university, as I was dealing with some personal issues that caused immense mental stress. My performance improved drastically in the 3rd year and finally I received a Dean’s honors award for my academic performance in my 4th year of university (which is granted only to students with exceptional academic performance.) I worked in the technology field and have also passed difficult certification exams such as the CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate) Based on my story, I feel that the low grades in one particular academic year of my undergraduate degree should not dictate my overall academic performance. Also, I have “A” grades in all my calculus and Economics courses. Besides the low GPA, I have a decent GMAT score (720), consulting experience from one of the biggest firms in Canada and an interesting story to pursue an MBA. Do I still need an alternate transcript? Thanks, Shash   Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: victormlee  Jun 08, 2012 Posts 2,553

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  Hello, Shash, How recently did you graduate? This can impact how your grades are perceived.  Of course, it depends on the specific program, but it is also generally the case that engineering programs often have more challenging grading systems than, say, humanities programs (where there can be a higher incidence of grade inflation, generally speaking). AdCom members can recognize this and evaluate your performance in the context of your particular school.  That all being said, you would be well advised to write an optional essay where you delve more into what caused the anomalous second year performance. Don't make excuses, but show AdCom (if true) that what happened in the past is not normal and would not occur again at Wharton. You are at least going to benefit from the fact that you continued to improve your performance in years 3 and 4. AdCom members do look carefully at transcripts - not just overall GPAs. It is also good that you have A's in calculus and economics (though the value of that information/those results will also depend on how rigorous and competitive the coursework was for those classes).  As for the CCNA, as someone who is well familiar with both CCNA and CCNP, I can tell you that those certifications are less likely to have value to a business school audience. Yes, many CCNPs (and CCNAs) tend to be able to demonstrate structured, logical thinking - and this could potentially be parlayed into some argument, but I wouldn't make a big deal out of this more technical certification. Long story short, you may not need to pursue an "alternate transcript," but it will depend on: a) what other evidence you can offer of your current quantitative, verbal, and writing abilities; b) how you present that evidence and argument; c) your time and availability to take a course; d) the rigor of your past academic experience; and e) how recently you completed your undergraduate coursework. Regards, Victor WG '11 Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: shash  Jun 08, 2012 Posts 3

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  Hi Victor, First off, I would like to thank you for your response and opinion. It is very hard to find an unbiased opinion from MBA consultants who offer very generic responses to all their clients. I graduated in May of 2009 with a degree in Electrical Engineering from one of the top 3 Engineering universities in Canada. My University sessional grades were as follows First Year - 2.7 / 4.0 Second year - 1.3/4.0 :( Third Year - 3.1/4.0 Fourth Year - 3.8/4.0 (deans honors award)   Overall - 2.8   So as you can see, the dip in my second year caused the dip in my cumulative GPA. In order to demonstrate my math, writing and analytical skills I can cite examples from my consulting journey and ensure that these examples are spelled out by my mentors in the recommendation letters. Also, I am hoping that the GMAT is some proof of my academic skills.   I understand the concept of an alternative transcript, but what I am challenging here is that will just 1 Accounting or a Finance course from a community college prove my academic abilities? If getting an A in this one course will offset my dip that would probably be the best news ever, but I just don’t see how this would work unless I take a bunch of courses form a very reputed university here in Canada. How can 1 course prove your academic strengths over 4 years of an engineering degree? It would be great to get your thoughts on that. Thanks once again. Shash Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: victormlee  Jun 08, 2012 Posts 2,553

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  Shash, I assume you are thinking of applying for the Class of 2015 (entry in Fall 2013). You would therefore be 3+ years out of college by the time you apply. Your grades are arguably recent enough that they would still hold some weight in the evaluation process (as opposed to, say, someone with 10 years of post-graduate experience).  Note that the GPA is less important (even on a year-over-year basis) than the specific grades achieved in each class (hence the transcript requirement).  Objectively speaking, though the trend in your yearly GPA was generally positive, your academic accomplishment seem at first blush not to put you in the most competitive "tier." Luckily, the key in the admissions process is not to demonstrate that you are so much better than everyone else (however "better" is defined or measured), but that you are capable of tackling a rigorous, analytical MBA program at a world-class institution.  What I think your consultant was trying to suggest is that you consider taking a class to demonstrate your current academic aptitude, interest in business, and seriousness in the application process. Don't think about the idea of taking an accounting or finance class at a community college as an attempt to "offset" past suboptimal grades, but more as a credible, tangible demonstration of present aptitude. Naturally, the more rigorous the program in which you enroll, the more credible your argument for being ready, now, will become.  At this point in time, if you do not make the decision soon to enroll in a class - and intend on applying in R1 or maybe R2, you may be better off focusing more of your time on constructing good essays (including an optional essay) and crafting a strong message across your other application submissions and recommendations.  Whatever you decide, just remember that you cannot change your past. All you can do is demonstrate that your present and future are bright, and that weaknesses in your past can - and have been overcome - as evidenced by clear, tangible examples and clean communication. Good luck, Victor Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: shash  Jun 09, 2012 Posts 3

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  Thanks for putting this into perspective Victor :) Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: victormlee  Jun 09, 2012 Posts 2,553

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  You're welcome. Good luck! -Victor   Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: WhartonDream  Jul 02, 2012 Posts 1

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  Hello Mods. I have a question regarding my situation.  I have a low undergrad GPA in a pretty tough major (bioengineering) and MS GPA 3.5 in the same field.  I’d like your opinion on how the MS would help to mitigate the uGPA.  Should this be something to address in the optional essay?  As the user ID indicates, I’d love to study at Wharton.  Also, I’ve heard Wharton is better suited for those with finance backgrounds (I am in the healthcare sector, non-business function).  How are these non-traditional applications treated?  Are they scrutinized more than the average applicant?  I'd like to work in consulting post-MBA.  Long term, I think I would like to start a company or return to industry.   Thanks!   Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: thatboy  Jul 08, 2012 Posts 8

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  Hi Victor and FF,   I have the same problem. Have had 3.0 GPA in college, and now I am trying to build an alternative transcript to compensate it. I am more concerned with which specific courses to take in order to build a successful alternative transcript. For example, should I retake those courses that I had the worst grades in college or should I retake only the quantitative courses with lower grades? Or should I froget about retaking and try to get new more advanced courses that I have never taken? For example, I took two courses in Summer 1 - Financial Accounting I and Introduction to Sociology. But with more scrutiny I start believing that I made a mistake by wasting my time with sociology because quantitative courses are much more important. In Summer 2 - which starts tomorrow - I have to make my decision for another 2 courses that I need to take. I can take Business Law I - which I passed with very bad grade in college. In addition to that I can take Calculus III which I have never taken before. I can also take Corporate Finance (I took Business Finance in college and got A. So, I dont know if there is need to take a similar course). But Calculus III and Corporate Finance are at the same day/time so I have to take only one of them.   So, my question 1: Should I take Business Law I, or should I not even waste my time and money for it? Question 2: Should I take Calculus III or Corporate Finance?   P.S. I hear that the professor of Calculus III is a very tough grader so, I am afraid of the risk of getting something other than A in that class. P.S. Also, I have taken Differential Equations and Linear Algebra in college, and had B- and C in them, so I feel like I need one Calculus class to compensate that.   I appreciate your help!   Josh Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: victormlee  Jul 09, 2012 Posts 2,553

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  WhartonDream, First, note that Wharton AdCom members will review your transcript to get a more detailed understanding of your performance during your undergraduate studies. If you feel there is a potential issue that may be worth explaining so that AdCom does not get the wrong impression, then feel free to write an optional essay (but first read http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mba/admissions/preparing-successful-application.cfm#essay). The risk, of course, is that you end up drawing attention to something that might not really be of major concern to AdCom. Only you know the specifics of your case, so I would not be able to adjudicate that; go with your gut instinct. Note that, if you choose to write an optional essay, you would be well advised to use tangible, concrete examples showing - not just telling - why you are now ready for Wharton's curriculum. Higher performance in a masters degree program (depending on the complexity, competitiveness, and rigor of said program) can help to demonstrate improved aptitude. Keep in mind, though, that you will have to make the links explicit as to how your bioengineering degree lessons and studies will prepare you for a business curriculum.  As for "better suited for finance," that depends on whom you ask at Wharton. Yes, Wharton is a more quanitatively heavy program than some others; it is a school that has a particularly notable Finance department. These and other factors attract both those from finance and those wishing to go into finance post-MBA. Yet, there are many other folks from non-finance backgrounds who do quite well at Wharton. Calling them "non-traditional" would be quite a stretch. To get a sense of the background of Wharton students, take a look at http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mba/student-life/class-profile.cfm.  To answer your question more directly, though, your biggest challenges will be a) making clear how you are ready for business school coursework; and b) having a clear story for why you are pursuing an MBA (it is unclear to me if you have any post-grad full time experience that is not in scientific research). As long as you can demonstrate academic readiness, your background can be seen as either a differentiating asset or a weakness depending on how YOU present it in the context of your application. Finally, when you say you would like to do consulting post-MBA, make sure you have a clearer sense of WHAT kind of consulting you wish to pursue. Consulting is a very broad term with several different facets. It's almost like an athlete saying, "I know I want to play sports for a career in the future." OK...but which sports? Why? How will you get there, etc. Good luck, Victor WG '11  Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: victormlee  Jul 09, 2012 Posts 2,553

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  Hi, Josh, Which courses would give you the most value, leaving aside the application considerations? If you were not accepted to Wharton, would you still be happy with your course choice(s)? If the answer to the latter is no, you've picked the wrong course(s).  Generally speaking, the key is to show quantitative, verbal, and analytical aptitude. If there are some areas in which you are weaker, you could either retake those classes or pursue more advanced subjects - so long as you do reasonably well in them. Either way could work.  Now, I wouldn't necessarily say you wasted your time with sociology. But, all else being equal, a financial accounting class is probably more related to MBA coursework than is a sociology class; in that respect, you were probably indeed better off with the accounting class. I personally wouldn't consider financial accounting particularly quantitative, though; it's more of a "language" class geared towards teaching you to speak the language of business.  If you have already taken a college-level calculus class and done well, then I wouldn't bother taking more advanced calculus classes or a DiffEq/LinAlgebra class (as far as the Wharton MBA is concerned). For the majority of classes, advanced math post introductory calculus is unnecessary (though it can open up some doors to neat electives). As for Corporate Finance (or any other course), consider the balance between demonstrating academic readiness to Wharton AdCom and taking so many business courses that AdCom begins to wonder why you are even pursuing an MBA.  Finally, on a personal level, I hate hearing that someone avoids a class just because someone is a tough grader. In my opinion, if one is confident in one's abilities, then one should embrace those classes, as they will give you even more of an opportunity to stand out from the rest. Just work harder so that the professor has no choice but to recognize your accomplishments and mastery of the material. Of course, if you are really worried that you cannot master the material, then that is a whole different story.  Good luck, Victor WG '11   Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: thatboy  Jul 09, 2012 Posts 8

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  Hi Victor,   I have replied to you, and the system is not letting it go through. It says the moderator needs to approve it. It didnt happen in my first post, so I am guessing may be this time my post was longer. Just writing this one to see if the shorter post will go through. Josh   Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: thatboy  Jul 09, 2012 Posts 8

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  Seems like the length was the problem. So I am going to split the message into two posts: Part 1 of 2 Thank you so much for prompt response and detailed analysis! After being away from school life for 4 years I am kind of thirsty for knowledge, and I thoroughly enjoy anything that I am into. For example, I would probably wouldnt enjoy such a course like sociology when I was in college, but now it was so much fun to take that course, and I was probably the most active student in the class despite my older age compared to the rest of class (average 20). So, I would say I can really take any class and I will enjoy it. That is may be one of the reasons that makes me feel that it is time to go back to school and do an MBA. Regarding my weaker points, the irony is that, I am much more confident in quantitative skills and less confident in English (mainly because it is not my native language) and other verbal skills. However, this cinfidence in quantitative skills pushed me to take Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, Advanced levels of Statistics courses when I was in college. So, as a Business Administration student while my classmates would pick "easy A" courses as electives, I would use my elective courses toward hardcore quantitative courses with Engineering students. So, I had some Cs in those courses. Now, if you look at my transcript it may seem like I am good at English because I had A in crytical reading but C in Differential Equations. But if you ask me, it is the vice versa. However, the adcom looks at the transcript. So, I am afraid that my transcript misrepresents my skills. Therefore I dont know what to do to compensate it.   Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: thatboy  Jul 09, 2012 Posts 8

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  The second part is not getting through. I dont know what the problem is. Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: victormlee  Jul 09, 2012 Posts 2,553

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  Keep in mind that AdCom does look at the details of the transcripts. Therefore, AdCom can appreciate what it means when a candidate has an A in Calculus I and a C in DiffEq. AdCom also has familiarity with many schools and the difficulty levels of various courses at those schools.  In your case, the key will be to demonstrate - with good, tangible examples - that you have the quantitative skills you say you have (remember, "talk is cheap," as the saying goes). Two things in your statement above also make me a bit wary - and I would think carefully about how you express them - if at all - in your application. First, you seem to imply that taking "hardcore quantitative courses with Engineering students" provides an excuse for your performance. Yes, the class may have been graded on a curve, but keep in mind that those same engineering students may also be your competition these days in applying to Wharton. The good thing, though, is that Wharton is looking more for demonstrated ability than whether or not you were sensational at math. It is more the attitude that can be inferred from your statement that can be dangerous (no offense intended). Second, there is the danger of being perceived as having been unaware of your own limitations and abilities at the time you took on your classes (i.e. - questionable decision making). The flip side is that it is admirable that you pursued more challenging courses - hopefully in the pursuit of more intellectual development. I think you would be well off writing an optional essay to provide the proper frame for AdCom, in addition to developing an additional strong transcript evidencing solid quantitative capability. Good luck! -Victor Reply

• Re: Low GPA .. it's killing me!! Please help. From: thatboy  Jul 09, 2012 Posts 8

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  Victor, I dont know what is going on but everytime I write back to you the system tells me it needs moderator approval. When I write a quick sentence it goes through. Reply